Terry Davis Interview

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John A. Adams ’71 Center for Military History and Strategic Analysis Military Oral History Project Interview with Terry J. Davis by Cadet Andrew Vezza, February 21, 2008.
©Adams Center, Virginia Military Institute
About the interviewer: Andrew Vezza is majoring in History and is a member of the Class of 2008. At graduation he will commission in the U. S. Army as a Field Artillery officer.
Vezza – The following interview is being conducted for the John A. Adams ’71 Center for Military History and Strategic Analysis as part of the requirements for History 386, U.S. Military History Since 1919. The interviewer is Andrew Vezza. The interviewee is Terry Davis. Today is February 21, 2008 and we are meeting over the phone at Preston Library.
Vezza – Please give a brief autobiographical sketch of your background with respect to the military.
Davis – I was born in Clearfield, Pennsylvania on August 3, 1946. I graduated from St. Francis High School in 1964. As I told you in the correspondence I sent you, upon graduation from the University of Dayton, I was commissioned in April of 1968 as a second lieutenant in the Air Defense Artillery, U.S. Army. That was after four years of ROTC at the University of Dayton. The first two years were mandatory. You either had to take ROTC or some type of physical education, and I saw more value in taking ROTC. The last two years, however, were elective. You chose to do that upon being accepted. After graduation I had the summer off. I didn’t go in to report for active duty until September of 1968, so the summer was in between there. I entered on active duty at Ft. Bliss, Texas for nine weeks of officer basic training as an air defense officer. That would have been from September to November 1968. My first assignment, after completing the Air Defense officer’s basic course—from November to July—was at Fort Bliss at the Air Defense training facility or Air Defense electronics school. I was assigned as a second lieutenant as an instructor/counselor for the enlisted men who were going through the missile electronics course for Air Defense Artillery.
In July of 1969 I got orders for deployment to Vietnam and I actually left in late September of 1969 to go to Vietnam and was in-country from September 1969 to June of 1970. I was assigned, upon 2
arrival, to the First Air Cavalry Division and was made a forward observer even though I had no prior training whatsoever in field artillery. So I was given a crash course by a field artillery officer and then assigned to an infantry unit and. I was a forward observer from September 1969 until April of 1970. Even though the normal tour of duty for a forward observer in the field was six months, I stayed in the field longer because they, quite frankly, didn’t know what to do with me because I didn’t have any battery experience. So they were just leaving me out there and rotating other, more junior, officers into the battery. Finally, after my raising my concerns a little bit, I did get taken out of the field and was assigned my last couple of months, from April 1970 to June 1970, as an aerial observer. By this time we had invaded Cambodia and I was working out of a fire base in Cambodia. My primary responsibility was an aerial observer, was to sight in or calibrate the guns for the battery on the fire base and to perform other aerial observer responsibilities.
I left right from the fire base in Cambodia to process out in a day or so in Bien Hoa, Vietnam. I then flew back to the United States where I was discharged from the Army in June 1970 from Ft. Dix, New Jersey. That is pretty much it.
Vezza – Let’s go back a little bit now. You said that you had to either take some sort of physical education or ROTC?
Davis – Yes. Those were basically your two choices at the University of Dayton.
Vezza – What was your reasoning for taking ROTC?
Davis – The primary reason was, again, I saw more benefit in what I could learn and how I could grow personally from taking the ROTC training. I saw so much more value to that. Not that I had anything against physical education—I loved sports and all that sort of thing—but, again, now that I was at a university I felt that I should look for the opportunity where I could grow the most. I felt that opportunity was through taking ROTC courses.
Vezza – Why did you choose Army over any of the other branches?
Davis – Basically there was no choice, given that I was going to take ROTC. The only one offered at the University of Dayton was Army ROTC.
Vezza – Did you do any kind of training over the summer or while you were at college with the Army before you commissioned?3
Davis – Yes. The advanced ROTC program—that is, the last two years—curriculum consisted of your classes two or three times a week, drill once a week and then six weeks of summer camp between my junior and senior year.
Vezza – What kinds of things did you do out there at summer camp?
Davis – I’m sure it’s comparable to basic training for the enlisted people—including Army discipline, combat training, bivouac, war games, and marksmanship.
Vezza – When you commissioned, you were branched Air Defense Artillery. Was that your first choice?
Davis – To be honest with you, I know for a fact that you got three choices and I know it was one of my top three but I can’t remember whether it was my first choice. I do remember that I was quite pleased getting it. So it wasn’t like I got my third choice or anything like that. I can’t remember whether it was first or second but I was pretty glad to get that branch.
Vezza – Was there a particular reason why that was one of your top choices?
Davis – Well, there were a couple. I’m not sure what Air Defense Artillery is today but then, in the late ‘60s, it was about working with the missiles at a missile site. Specifically, I ended up being trained in the Nike missiles which were your long-range missiles. That whole field fascinated me. In addition, the Nike bases were attractive locations, particularly the ones in Europe. Just the whole thing had a certain amount of appeal to it. Secondly, and probably not surprisingly, I didn’t have any great desire to go to Vietnam and since there was no air defense in Vietnam, I thought that was a pretty safe route to take in addition to the excitement and glamour of that particular branch.
Vezza – How long was your obligation once you were commissioned?
Davis – It was a two year obligation, paying back for the two year mandatory ROTC that I took at college. I should mention, of course, that being in the advanced program in the final two years, you were paid a monthly stipend so you’re paying back the government for the fees that you received while you were in training.
Vezza – So when you went to Ft. Bliss for your officer basic course, what was that like?
Davis – That was a combination of training in missiles and the missile technology and missile deployment, combined with your basic officer leadership skills. There were maneuvers and exercises in 4
the desert there at El Paso that required basic combat leadership skills. Again, it was combination of technical and branch specific training in Air Defense as well as your officer training—how to lead men, how to fight and that type of thing.
Vezza – Your first job, you said, was there at the school?
Davis – That’s right. Again, I felt very fortunate. You probably haven’t been to El Paso but, at the time, it was considered a very good duty station, considering a lot of the other alternatives. It was a very good place to be and I enjoyed those nine weeks immensely and I was very pleased that my duty assignment was to stay there and be on the faculty on the Air Defense electronics school.
Vezza – Were you teaching other lieutenants or soon-to-be lieutenants while you were there?
Davis – No, actually I was assigned as an instructor for the enlisted men who were going through the basic electronics courses there at the Air Defense School. They were to be assigned to work on the missile sites on the electronic infrastructure of the missiles, etc. These were basic electronics courses that the enlisted men were going through. I was an instructor as well as a counselor for enlisted men going through the courses there.
Vezza – Now, refresh my memory. When did you learn you would be deployed to Vietnam?
Davis – That’s an interesting story because I was very acutely aware of the timing of when people got orders when they were going to go to Vietnam. The rule of thumb then was, you normally got orders to go to Vietnam 13 to 14 months prior to your discharge date. The reasons were that you had to go to jungle school, use your leave, and then arrive in-country with a year to serve. That was a normal tour of duty, twelve months in-country. So there was a window—13 to 14 months backed up from your discharge date—when you could expect to get orders. I had passed that point in the spring of 1969—around May or so—and, in fact, the personnel officer came around that timeframe in May and told me he had just gotten off the phone with the Pentagon and I had been frozen there at the Air Defense School. My final year of duty was going to be at Ft. Bliss. So I went past that window when you normally get orders—well past it actually—into July and then I got orders in July. So, by the time I used my leave and everything, I arrived in-country in mid-September of 1969 with actually less than a year to go. I had about eleven months time left in service. It was a very unusual situation and to this day I have no idea exactly how that worked but it certainly was not the norm by any stretch of the imagination.5
Vezza – Where was your pre-deployment training and what was that like?
Davis – Again, that’s part of the mystery because I had no pre-deployment training whatsoever. Basically, they didn’t have time to give it to me. I left El Paso in late July, had about 45 days’ leave and then took off for Vietnam in September so I had no training.
Vezza – When you got to Vietnam, what unit were you assigned to?
Davis – I was assigned, upon arrival, to the First Air Cavalry Division.
Vezza – Where exactly in Vietnam were you stationed at?
Davis – At that time the First Cav was responsible for what they called the “corridor to Saigon.” It was the provinces just north of Saigon and the villages or areas known as Phouc Vin, Song Be, Tay Ninh. Again, I don’t have a map here of Vietnam but I think if you would look on a map you would see all of those just to the north, in varying degrees, of Saigon. The idea was to protect that area from invasion from the north. That was part of the responsibility of the First Cav unit that I was assigned to at that time.
Vezza – Could you explain what a regular day would have consisted of while you were in theatre?
Davis – Let me just back up and tell you generally how the First Cav operated. Of course it was, and maybe still is, the First “Air” Cav. Basically what they would do with us—the infantry unit that I was assigned to—was take us out and drop us off in a particular area of operation, either because there was suspected enemy activity or the likelihood of enemy activity coming into that area. For whatever reason, they would take us out and drop us off, we would perform the mission—whatever it was—either search and destroy or reconnaissance and then, at a certain period of time—it could range from maybe a week to a month—they would come back out, pick us up and take us back to the rear for a period of recouping a little bit before the next mission. One of the advantages of being in the Air Cav was that they would log you every three days—that is, bring in your fresh supplies, food, water, mail, all the little goodies, etc. So that was the backdrop for what I’m about to tell you.
A normal day of operation would be, basically, walking. It was particularly stressful for the forward observer because all day I would have to know, on the map and on the ground, where we were at all times. It was a matter of counting paces and continually taking compass azimuths so that I did, in fact, know where I was. If I had to call in artillery, the worst possible thing would be to be mistaken about your location and call the artillery on your own units. It was, for all the waking hours of the day from dawn until 6
you went to bed, about knowing exactly where you were. Sometimes this entailed calling in marking rounds or smoke rounds to ensure that I was where I thought I was. That was critical. The infantry depended on you knowing where you were and to call in that artillery. That was the day. Counting paces and shooting azimuth. In the evening when we set up base camp the first thing that I would do, and one of the most important things, was to establish defensive targets around our location—north, south, east and west. I would actually call those rounds in to specified coordinates, again validating that I was where I thought I was. The purpose of that, of course, was if anything happened during the night—if we were to be attacked from direction—those targets were pre-set and I could just adjust from the closest one. That was the last duty of the day.
Vezza – As an FO, were there certain types of batteries that you spotted for and were there any types of artillery that you found to be more effective than others?
Davis – Let’s put it this way—almost 100% of the batteries that I worked for as the FO were the 105 batteries. I probably called some others (155s) in a few times but 99% of the time I was working with the 105s. The other weapon I had in my arsenal as an FO was the Cobra gunship and it was the best. They are absolutely the best. They would be on the spot in no time, they were so effective, and those pilots were so courageous. That was like an ace in the hole to have those guys.
Vezza – Were you ever involved in any firefights? How often were your engaged or how many engagements were you in?
Davis – When I look back on it all, and I do occasionally, it’s a pretty amazing thing. The bottom line answer, to your question, is that there were very few times we were engaged where I called in the battery. I used the Cobras more often. Sometimes there might be just one or two VC or whatever and the Cobras would be on-site. I’d work with them, but actually calling in the batteries in a fire fight? I could count those on my one hand. The amazing thing about that is that it should have been more. Often our mission was to go in and to take the place of a battalion that had been virtually wiped out because the NVA were so strong in the area. So we would get dropped in and they’d be gone—just like ghosts—nobody there. Conversely we were taken out of an area of operation to go back to the rear area to recuperate and the unit that took our place would be over-run. This happened so many times that it was7
more than just coincidence. The short answer to your question is that there weren’t many fire fights that I was actually engaged in.
Vezza – Could you give an account of what the Vietnamese civilians seemed to think of your presence or any kind of interaction you had with the civilians?
Davis – Let me qualify what I’m going to say by telling you first of all that I didn’t have a lot of interaction with civilians. I spent most of my time in the field, either in the jungle with the infantry or on a fire base. I had very little opportunity for interaction. Some of the time when we were in the rear area for a couple of days, they were around the rear locations that we had at Phouc Vin and some of the other places so occasionally I would. Most of the dealings that I can recollect were commercial or economic. For example, there were local laundries where we had our fatigues done while we were out in the field and then we’d pick them up. There were a lot of little kids trying to sell you Pepsi or whatever. I think they looked at us as a source of money more than anything else. I’m not sure how they really felt about the war. Again, they really did like our money and could think of many, many ways to try and work a deal with you.
Vezza – What was your opinion of the enemy?
Davis – I had a certain degree of respect for the NVA as a fighting force. Logistically they probably didn’t have nearly what we had, and I think that’s a very fair statement. But tactically there were times when they were supposed to be there and they’d disappear and other times when they weren’t supposed to be there, and they’d appear. They were very effective fighters. So you had to respect them for what they did with what they had. With the Viet Cong it was a little different. You respected them but it was just so frustrating the way they operated. You were always at a disadvantage because you never knew where they were or what they were going to do and then they’d disappear and blend into the civilian population. That was sort of a different feeling about them—more of a respectful dislike than was the case with the NVA.
Vezza – How did you feel and what were the major sentiments of your soldiers about serving in Vietnam? You said earlier that nobody wanted to go, but when you were there and you were with the men, what was it like?8
Davis – I was 23 years old and I was probably one of the older people there. The enlisted men were very, very young and I think if I were to use some general categorizations as how they felt—they were there but they probably didn’t understand why they were there and they were going to do their duty, just to survive. In other words, survival was the instinct. They really didn’t understand the cause or believe in the missions but they were going to do it the best that they could for their fellow soldier and for their own self survival.
Vezza – Is there anything else in particular about your time in theatre that was interesting or something that you feel is important that we haven’t covered that you’d like to share with us?
Davis – You asked me about the Vietnamese civilian population and my interaction with them but I want to share with you my very low impression of the South Vietnamese army. They were lazy and, in my opinion, not very courageous. This was their country and we were there, supposedly, to help them. But if there was a fire fight or whatever they’d be the first ones to hightail it out of there. I had very negative impressions of them.
Just a little anecdote that relates, I think, to the people there and their motivation or their incentive, if you will. One of the closest encounters that I had in Vietnam was on a fire base. The duty officer got alerted that there was an emergency, and he asked me to go with him. It turned out that there was a Vietnamese male civilian who had a prostitute on the fire base. The captain and I had to go and ask him to remove this lady from the fire base. He pulled a .45 on us and cocked it, and it was pretty tense there for awhile until we talked him down. I tell you that story because it just depicts the situation. Here we were in their country, trying to help them, and they had no respect for us, I don’t think.
Vezza – Refresh my memory. On completion of your tour, where were you sent after that?
Davis – My time in the field or my time in Vietnam?
Vezza – Once you finished your time in Vietnam, where were you sent when you got back to the States?
Davis – My two year obligation with the Army would have been up in September of 1970. However, while I was in Vietnam I got accepted to graduate school at the University of Dayton where I had attended undergraduate school. At that time the Army had a policy that if you got accepted to college or graduate school, you could have up to a 90 day drop in your tour of duty in Vietnam, depending on 9
when your classes started. My course of study started in mid to late June so I basically got a 90 day drop from my regular discharge date—from September to June—so that I could begin classes on schedule. I left Vietnam and went right to Ft. Dix, New Jersey where I was discharged from the Army in early June of 1970.
Vezza – Did you ever think about staying in the Army?
Davis – Yes, particularly when I was at Ft. Bliss. Again, if you recall, I was supposed to stay there my second year of duty and I really had no idea of what I was going to do after I got out. That tour was so appealing—the officers that I associated with were very exemplary and the duty was very challenging there at the Air Defense School. So I considered, at that time, at least staying for a few more years to see other duty stations and, to get a perspective on what I might be doing for the rest of my life. My thought was that I’d take it a chunk at a time but 20 years was not out of the question, based on my first year there. Of course, Vietnam changed all that. That changed my whole perspective on a lot of things.
Vezza – Would you say that your time in Vietnam was why you decided not to stay?
Davis – That had a lot to do with it. I saw a lot of things—both the good and the bad. I saw the bravery of the men, I saw some officers there, particularly West Point graduates, that I probably would have followed anywhere. Some of the company commanders that I worked with were just excellent leaders and excellent men. That was all good, but then I also saw what happens when you politicize military operations. For example, when we did invade Cambodia, the unit that I was assigned to was one of the lead units in that invasion. At the time it was not politically accepted that we invade Cambodia so our unit was sort of used as a decoy to go up and draw the NVA out of Cambodia as an excuse to go in. To do that, we were sent outside of our own artillery range. I was a forward observer there with the infantry but I had no artillery support, which was and I’m sure still is, one of the cardinal rules of engagement—you never put your troops outside of the range of artillery support. Again, the point of that story is that once you politicize the military and the military operations I think that’s when the harm comes in. That’s on the negative side. I saw some of that. I also saw some “ticket punching” and I’m sure that goes on today. For example, placing a supply officer in charge of an infantry company just so that he could go up the ladder, so to speak, when he’s clearly not qualified to lead men. I suppose those are the 10
types of things that are inherent in any sort of organization but the consequences of such decisions are much more serious when lives are at stake. Anyway, it was enough to make me think of going another direction. Let’s put it that way.
Vezza – When you were discharged, were you a first lieutenant or a captain? What was your rank when you finished?
Davis – I was a first lieutenant. Usually, you were promoted to first lieutenant after a year as second lieutenant.
Vezza – Once back in the civilian sector, how were you treated as a veteran? Was it good, bad or a combination of both?
Davis – Pretty much “indifferent” is the best term I could use I guess. There weren’t any experiences that I can recall where people were negative because I had served. Nor were there a lot of compliments or thanks for serving. It was just like it never happened.
Vezza – Vietnam, being such a controversial war—do you see any differences in how it’s viewed today or how it was viewed back then?
Davis – Yes, I do. I think there’s been a lot of healing and maybe a little bit more appreciation. I’m not sure. But I think perhaps the similarities with the wars we’re fighting today maybe have raised the value of the Vietnam conflict a little bit. I think, for the most part, the healing has taken place and it’s certainly different now. Then, it ranged from the negative side of the scale, at least down to indifference at best, but certainly not positive. I’d have to say it’s probably better now than it was then.
Vezza – When you finished graduate school, did your military service aid you in getting a job? Would you say it was a very good thing to have on your resume?
Davis – Yes, I certainly would, particularly in my case because I ended up with the General Accounting Office, the government agency that audits all the other federal programs. It is in the congressional branch of government working for the Congress to oversee all the executive branch programs—to audit them for fraud, waste and abuse. Particularly with a government job, military service probably carried a lot more weight. But I would guess, based on experience of friends, etc. that it also carried weight in the private sector as well because of the leadership and training that Army officers have.11
Vezza – Is there anything else at all that you would like to add that I haven’t covered in the interview that you think would be of importance?
Davis – The only other kind of closing statement that I would make is, as I look back on everything, I probably did value both the Army education and the Army experiences—even the negative part that I mentioned before. While I probably wouldn’t have chosen to go to Vietnam, I certainly, as I look back, would not have wanted to eliminate that from my past either. I felt that the whole military experience as well as the Vietnam service certainly helped me grow as a person and to gain a better perspective on life and the things that are important in life.
Vezza – Thank you very much for your time.
Davis – Good luck with this project and with the rest of your studies there and certainly with your Army career.
Vezza – Thank you.